Jkkezh
12 februari 2007, 11:16
For starters, this is regarding the recently-talked-about herbal treatment mentioned in another thread by poster "debris" which has a patent posted here http://v3.espacenet.com/origdoc?DB=EPODOC&IDX=WO2006122396&F=0&QPN=WO2006122396 , you can click http://v3.espacenet.com/origdoc?DB=EPODOC&IDX=WO2006122396&F=0&QPN=WO2006122396 ">here to read. The other thread on it at HLH is posted here. ">http://hairlosshelp.com/forums/messageview.cfm?catid=10&threadid=65293&FTVAR_MSGDBTABLE=">here. A couple questions were raised about it, for which I have tried to get answers.
Guys, I took a chance this evening and called up one of the co-inventors of the product, whose name appears in the patent information- Dave Callahan. It was a cell number I called and at times people don't care to talk to some average Joe inquiring about their personal business but I found him to be a heck of a nice guy and very forthcoming about the product himself and the company he is a part of are set to launch shortly. Please be aware, I'm basically just a messenger, I'm not vouching for him or the product whatsoever and am relaying information- that's it. So don't take the bullet point statements and claims here as gospel truth
What I've been told and am posting could at most send shock waves throughout the online hairloss community and raise hopes (I hope to heck, not FALSE hope). At worst I will get enough flames to start my own Hades but here goes.
* He and the other co-inventor are part of Island Laboratories of Newfoundland (New Labrador) Canada.
* The treatment, in a nutshell, works by controlling a switch to promote hair growth, reintroducing to the body its proper interpretation of the hair growth signaling (Sonic hedgehog pathway), and he claims actually stimulates stem cell propogation which he concedes many think is impossible at this point. The product causes the proliferation of follicle stem cells which will be visible through "eye-scope" (some kind of super-magnification device; never heard of this instrument myself), making the improvement readily visible and scientifically verifiable.
* Commercialization (product launch) date is estimated for October of 2007. The product's final patent date: Dec 16th, its world patent date: January 5th (he mentioned these dates briefly- not being patent-educated, I don't know their significance)
* In 1-4 weeks, a website promoting the product should be launched. They are making an effort to produce as high quality a site as possible. He did not have a website URL to give me as yet.
* Estimated cost of the product: $400-500 for a year's supply.
* The product is trademarked in Canada as "Stemcellex". It is a topical with all plant-based ingredients. No side effects except for a couple positive ones besides the hair growth. 3 applications a day of the product would be required to start out for the first few months, decreasing to fewer applications (not every day) for continuity and maintenance- he said it wouldn't be necessary to apply every day, once the hair begins growing. He focuses on science and the protection of the same. The product rapidly increases the hair count.
* By day 12-14, activity should be evident as to the removal of excess sebum and obstructions in the scalp (PERSONAL NOTE: those of us focusing on the fibrosis aspect of MPB may take note here). By day 30-60, new hairs should be breaking the skin. He said if he was a snake oil salesman, he would not be claiming results of hair regrowth on a bald head in 30 days (a point another poster brought up also). There are people growing full heads of hair, he claims.
* Some name-dropping: he has contacts with the National Research Council (NRC), Dr. David Byrne(sp?) and Linda Calvert(sp?) of the CBC national news is his correspondent and they are planning on releasing a news "flash" to CBC in the coming weeks. His company and well-known researcher Elaine Fuchs have had talks.
* He is familiar with the cries of "snake oil!" from many people who have tried countless treatments ending up with zero results, and counts himself in this category. He says he is a client of his own product, having lost all his hair (NW6) and at this point has about 70-80% coverage and improving. This growth and improvement of course can be plainly seen upon meeting him in person.
* The trials mentioned in the patent, the 1000 people mentioned- the "1,000" is actually a cumulative number as trials were conducted with an earlier 'prototype' or version of the product, in the Middle East, over the course of 10-15 years' time. The trials were conducted in smaller segments of about 75 people apiece, over time with results recorded. The formulation the patent represents is a more effective, stronger version. A small trial conducted recently in the U.S. with about 60 people has produced hair growth on all participants.
* They have fielded so many emails over the past few months that their server crashed once. His phones have been ringing off the hook and he has been deluged with so many contacts of all kinds that himself, his wife and child are planning a vacation very soon to get a little respite from all the calls, correspondence and additional workload.
* They (Island Labs) are procuring a facility to use for extraction, "super critical fluid extraction" (he mentioned this term, kinda lost on me) for raw, extra higher percentage of the active ingredients and provide a base for product formulation. He personally has invested over $1,000,000 into the product overall.
* He is seeking FDA approval in the USA. I asked why this would be necessary if the product has all plant-based, herbal ingredients. He said it was not required but they were doing it anyway as it would serve to lend credibility to the science behind it. It is already at "Level 2" with Health Canada (another detail he briefly mentioned and I took down, without his elaborating on it much).
* We talked briefly about Minoxidil. Nothing that really hasn't been discussed before here on this forum, as it was an anti-hypertensive drug that through a little serendipity found another niche etc with negligible results for many.
* He gave me his email addy and said I could contact him (I did a couple hours ago)- he would forward my email addy to the person who will be doing their website, the same person who has been handling all their Internet-based activities, and I could get periodic updates and additional information about the product as things progress. It was strongly insinuated to me this would be getting a lot of press. I didn't want to disclose his email addy here as this would be a bit personal, and frankly the man sounds busy enough as it is.
* In the original trials, he said 80% were reported as growing hair. Effective for men and women, but women enjoyed faster (not more effective, but *faster*) results. It is becoming more well known in Eastern Canada as being able to grow hair- one person he knows has been bald for 30 years and is growing hair. Another person using it locally got his hair cut on top for the first time in 12 years. I asked about the approx. 20% of people who were not able to grow hair. He said that most of those people had medical conditions prohibiting the hair regrowth, inhibiting even the treatment's ability to help the situation. According to him, most people with normal male/female pattern hairloss should respond.
* He says the treatment will soon be "unleashed" on the world and he realizes the enormity of what they have. I said that if this is what he claims it is, is he concerned about so-called "black shelving". Now, if you're not familiar with this term, it means a company buys the patent then deliberately suppresses the product or information. He said the only thing that adequately compares to the product's ability to restore hair is actual hair transplantation at this point. Therefore, certain entities and businesses will have a vested interest in the treatment never seeing commercialization. He assured this wouldn't happen. He wants to go on to other research that this product has opened the doors to. He couldn't elaborate more on that, but particularly the stem cell area is of interest here.
* He conceded that Mohammed, the other co-inventor, is the man with more knowledge than himself (Dave Callahan). He can provide much more scientific data about the treatment.
Conclusion (my own): I'm a diehard skeptic, having tried countless products that failed. In research and talking to people who have formulated products, many have come off as just as confident as Dave and seemed just as promising; sadly they didn't pan out. Thus, I won't truly believe any of this unless and until I see significant results on my own head, or talk to someone I trust 100% and know personally. Some of you may remember Piliel and FNS (Follicle Nutrient Serum), the latter of which was based on the former, trials had been conducted overseas and had been EXTREMELY promising. There were high hopes for FNS and the product absolutely tanked. I mean, no one at this point seems to be using it anymore and it was a colossal disappointment and flop. Same kind of situation happened with HairMagic, and countless others. Multiply these abysmal failures times a thousand and you basically have pictured the history of the topical hair treatment industry, with only a couple notable exceptions. With each new product, hopes are raised only to be obliterated when it's released and it simply doesn't produce results. Most are outright scams, some are released by well-meaning people who believed they had something effective but never did. The reality of the situation is that Stemcellex could be a repeat of that.
All this being said, I'm decent at being able to pick out a liar and Dave certainly did NOT come off like one. There was absolutely no hesitation to my questions, and he provided names of people with whom I could verify some of what he told me. He also was not in the least bit evasive- he encouraged me to contact him in the future, and was a very nice, pleasant to talk to and humble guy. In my best estimation, this will be "one to watch" in the months ahead as it gains press and knowledge of it propogates. Must say it's been years since I've talked to anyone with Dave's enthusiasm! I was excited too listening to his words but it was tempered with my own memories of hopes being raised ultimately all for nothing, for scams in the past so despite all of this since I am pretty much a diehard skeptic (I don't know if there is a single industry as rife with scams as this) and neutral or indifferent at this point although I have had *some* results from the deep skin peel approach to which I'll return this year, at least for awhile.
I may become a sort of unofficial "contact person" for the product inventors, and even mentioned HLH in my email to Dave as he requested where I read about it. I wouldn't rule out some rep from the company posting here as he mentioned that it was somewhat of a possibility, their free time allowing. As time goes by what I'm most looking for (and looking forward *to*) is information about the product coming from scientific sources independent of the inventors. Meanwhile their website should be launched soon enough and should be a good resource or those curious about it.
Well I took notes as best I could (Dave talks fast!!) during the phone conversation and have permission from him to disclose everything above; hopefully I have all the details correct and hope this helps for anyone curious about it. Thoughts?"
van
http://www.regrowth.com/hairloss-forums/viewthread.cfm?f=6&t=15964
en
http://www.hairlosshelp.com/FORUMS/messageview.cfm?catid=10&threadid=65600&FTVAR_MSGDBTABLE=&STARTPAGE=1
Guys, I took a chance this evening and called up one of the co-inventors of the product, whose name appears in the patent information- Dave Callahan. It was a cell number I called and at times people don't care to talk to some average Joe inquiring about their personal business but I found him to be a heck of a nice guy and very forthcoming about the product himself and the company he is a part of are set to launch shortly. Please be aware, I'm basically just a messenger, I'm not vouching for him or the product whatsoever and am relaying information- that's it. So don't take the bullet point statements and claims here as gospel truth
What I've been told and am posting could at most send shock waves throughout the online hairloss community and raise hopes (I hope to heck, not FALSE hope). At worst I will get enough flames to start my own Hades but here goes.
* He and the other co-inventor are part of Island Laboratories of Newfoundland (New Labrador) Canada.
* The treatment, in a nutshell, works by controlling a switch to promote hair growth, reintroducing to the body its proper interpretation of the hair growth signaling (Sonic hedgehog pathway), and he claims actually stimulates stem cell propogation which he concedes many think is impossible at this point. The product causes the proliferation of follicle stem cells which will be visible through "eye-scope" (some kind of super-magnification device; never heard of this instrument myself), making the improvement readily visible and scientifically verifiable.
* Commercialization (product launch) date is estimated for October of 2007. The product's final patent date: Dec 16th, its world patent date: January 5th (he mentioned these dates briefly- not being patent-educated, I don't know their significance)
* In 1-4 weeks, a website promoting the product should be launched. They are making an effort to produce as high quality a site as possible. He did not have a website URL to give me as yet.
* Estimated cost of the product: $400-500 for a year's supply.
* The product is trademarked in Canada as "Stemcellex". It is a topical with all plant-based ingredients. No side effects except for a couple positive ones besides the hair growth. 3 applications a day of the product would be required to start out for the first few months, decreasing to fewer applications (not every day) for continuity and maintenance- he said it wouldn't be necessary to apply every day, once the hair begins growing. He focuses on science and the protection of the same. The product rapidly increases the hair count.
* By day 12-14, activity should be evident as to the removal of excess sebum and obstructions in the scalp (PERSONAL NOTE: those of us focusing on the fibrosis aspect of MPB may take note here). By day 30-60, new hairs should be breaking the skin. He said if he was a snake oil salesman, he would not be claiming results of hair regrowth on a bald head in 30 days (a point another poster brought up also). There are people growing full heads of hair, he claims.
* Some name-dropping: he has contacts with the National Research Council (NRC), Dr. David Byrne(sp?) and Linda Calvert(sp?) of the CBC national news is his correspondent and they are planning on releasing a news "flash" to CBC in the coming weeks. His company and well-known researcher Elaine Fuchs have had talks.
* He is familiar with the cries of "snake oil!" from many people who have tried countless treatments ending up with zero results, and counts himself in this category. He says he is a client of his own product, having lost all his hair (NW6) and at this point has about 70-80% coverage and improving. This growth and improvement of course can be plainly seen upon meeting him in person.
* The trials mentioned in the patent, the 1000 people mentioned- the "1,000" is actually a cumulative number as trials were conducted with an earlier 'prototype' or version of the product, in the Middle East, over the course of 10-15 years' time. The trials were conducted in smaller segments of about 75 people apiece, over time with results recorded. The formulation the patent represents is a more effective, stronger version. A small trial conducted recently in the U.S. with about 60 people has produced hair growth on all participants.
* They have fielded so many emails over the past few months that their server crashed once. His phones have been ringing off the hook and he has been deluged with so many contacts of all kinds that himself, his wife and child are planning a vacation very soon to get a little respite from all the calls, correspondence and additional workload.
* They (Island Labs) are procuring a facility to use for extraction, "super critical fluid extraction" (he mentioned this term, kinda lost on me) for raw, extra higher percentage of the active ingredients and provide a base for product formulation. He personally has invested over $1,000,000 into the product overall.
* He is seeking FDA approval in the USA. I asked why this would be necessary if the product has all plant-based, herbal ingredients. He said it was not required but they were doing it anyway as it would serve to lend credibility to the science behind it. It is already at "Level 2" with Health Canada (another detail he briefly mentioned and I took down, without his elaborating on it much).
* We talked briefly about Minoxidil. Nothing that really hasn't been discussed before here on this forum, as it was an anti-hypertensive drug that through a little serendipity found another niche etc with negligible results for many.
* He gave me his email addy and said I could contact him (I did a couple hours ago)- he would forward my email addy to the person who will be doing their website, the same person who has been handling all their Internet-based activities, and I could get periodic updates and additional information about the product as things progress. It was strongly insinuated to me this would be getting a lot of press. I didn't want to disclose his email addy here as this would be a bit personal, and frankly the man sounds busy enough as it is.
* In the original trials, he said 80% were reported as growing hair. Effective for men and women, but women enjoyed faster (not more effective, but *faster*) results. It is becoming more well known in Eastern Canada as being able to grow hair- one person he knows has been bald for 30 years and is growing hair. Another person using it locally got his hair cut on top for the first time in 12 years. I asked about the approx. 20% of people who were not able to grow hair. He said that most of those people had medical conditions prohibiting the hair regrowth, inhibiting even the treatment's ability to help the situation. According to him, most people with normal male/female pattern hairloss should respond.
* He says the treatment will soon be "unleashed" on the world and he realizes the enormity of what they have. I said that if this is what he claims it is, is he concerned about so-called "black shelving". Now, if you're not familiar with this term, it means a company buys the patent then deliberately suppresses the product or information. He said the only thing that adequately compares to the product's ability to restore hair is actual hair transplantation at this point. Therefore, certain entities and businesses will have a vested interest in the treatment never seeing commercialization. He assured this wouldn't happen. He wants to go on to other research that this product has opened the doors to. He couldn't elaborate more on that, but particularly the stem cell area is of interest here.
* He conceded that Mohammed, the other co-inventor, is the man with more knowledge than himself (Dave Callahan). He can provide much more scientific data about the treatment.
Conclusion (my own): I'm a diehard skeptic, having tried countless products that failed. In research and talking to people who have formulated products, many have come off as just as confident as Dave and seemed just as promising; sadly they didn't pan out. Thus, I won't truly believe any of this unless and until I see significant results on my own head, or talk to someone I trust 100% and know personally. Some of you may remember Piliel and FNS (Follicle Nutrient Serum), the latter of which was based on the former, trials had been conducted overseas and had been EXTREMELY promising. There were high hopes for FNS and the product absolutely tanked. I mean, no one at this point seems to be using it anymore and it was a colossal disappointment and flop. Same kind of situation happened with HairMagic, and countless others. Multiply these abysmal failures times a thousand and you basically have pictured the history of the topical hair treatment industry, with only a couple notable exceptions. With each new product, hopes are raised only to be obliterated when it's released and it simply doesn't produce results. Most are outright scams, some are released by well-meaning people who believed they had something effective but never did. The reality of the situation is that Stemcellex could be a repeat of that.
All this being said, I'm decent at being able to pick out a liar and Dave certainly did NOT come off like one. There was absolutely no hesitation to my questions, and he provided names of people with whom I could verify some of what he told me. He also was not in the least bit evasive- he encouraged me to contact him in the future, and was a very nice, pleasant to talk to and humble guy. In my best estimation, this will be "one to watch" in the months ahead as it gains press and knowledge of it propogates. Must say it's been years since I've talked to anyone with Dave's enthusiasm! I was excited too listening to his words but it was tempered with my own memories of hopes being raised ultimately all for nothing, for scams in the past so despite all of this since I am pretty much a diehard skeptic (I don't know if there is a single industry as rife with scams as this) and neutral or indifferent at this point although I have had *some* results from the deep skin peel approach to which I'll return this year, at least for awhile.
I may become a sort of unofficial "contact person" for the product inventors, and even mentioned HLH in my email to Dave as he requested where I read about it. I wouldn't rule out some rep from the company posting here as he mentioned that it was somewhat of a possibility, their free time allowing. As time goes by what I'm most looking for (and looking forward *to*) is information about the product coming from scientific sources independent of the inventors. Meanwhile their website should be launched soon enough and should be a good resource or those curious about it.
Well I took notes as best I could (Dave talks fast!!) during the phone conversation and have permission from him to disclose everything above; hopefully I have all the details correct and hope this helps for anyone curious about it. Thoughts?"
van
http://www.regrowth.com/hairloss-forums/viewthread.cfm?f=6&t=15964
en
http://www.hairlosshelp.com/FORUMS/messageview.cfm?catid=10&threadid=65600&FTVAR_MSGDBTABLE=&STARTPAGE=1