Haarweb Forum  
Bijna 100.000 bezoekers p/mnd! Zie hier

Ga terug   Haarweb Forum > Alopecia Androgenetica > Chirurgische behandelingen

Reageren
 
Discussietools Waardering: Waardering discussie: 24 stemmen, 5,00 gemiddeld. Weergave
Oud 7 juni 2011, 01:34   #46
Lucky
HaarWeb lid
 
Geregistreerd: 17 september 2004
Berichten: 1.198
Yes now I cant follow you anymore either, Stevie. A couple of posts ago you asked Roloff to buy a miscroscope to show it.

You want to hear all kind of answers but you easily ignore the main point and calls it "clearly not impossible'' while there's no proof at all. What clearly not impossible ?

Ps dont come up with Gho's own article and evidence with 5 donors.
Lucky is offline   Met citaat reageren
Oud 7 juni 2011, 01:48   #47
Stevie.Dee
HaarWeb lid
 
Stevie.Dee's schermafbeelding
 
Geregistreerd: 19 april 2011
Berichten: 190
No no no no no. Wait iam not saying DOnor Regrowth in general is impossible.

I only criticise the way Gho is promoting it, which in my opinion is unethical in his terms of presentation because he just doesnt use this possibility in a good way.

I aksed Roloff to buy a microscope because i wann finally see Gho patients to take responsibility and show us if Gho is right or if he just claims BS in ways of telling but not delivering.

Donor regrowth happened accidentally in some FUE patients but no one did in fact investigate this furter. There are studies for this besides Ghos.

Sorry should have brought up those links before

http://www.tissuereconstruction.it/i...icoli&Itemid=2
Stevie.Dee is offline   Met citaat reageren
Oud 7 juni 2011, 02:00   #48
Spanish Dude
HaarWeb lid
 
Spanish Dude's schermafbeelding
 
Geregistreerd: 29 augustus 2010
Berichten: 174
Donor regrowth doesn't exist unless we see proof.

dr. Cole said that he observed up to 54% of donor regrowth in FUE'd patients using Acell, but at the same time, he said:

>>>>
With body hair, you can totally remove an area through FUE and then go back 6 months later and it is full of hair. it is thinner, but there is plenty of hair. The reason is that there are many hair in the exogen phase on the body.
<<<<

So, it looks to me that dr. Cole wants to jump on the Acell bandwagon hype, but at the same time, he wants to avoid telling lies. The result is a weird mixture: "Acell doesn't work for HM, but I am getting some results with it"
Spanish Dude is offline   Met citaat reageren
Oud 7 juni 2011, 03:07   #49
Stevie.Dee
HaarWeb lid
 
Stevie.Dee's schermafbeelding
 
Geregistreerd: 19 april 2011
Berichten: 190
Scalp hair works the other way if you have pigmented spot those spots are empty.

In Coles study he looked at the etraction sites and how many of them actually Vanished.

Also did you read the link i posted? I think you didnt because it also states that hair regrowth is possible
Stevie.Dee is offline   Met citaat reageren
Oud 7 juni 2011, 04:16   #50
Spanish Dude
HaarWeb lid
 
Spanish Dude's schermafbeelding
 
Geregistreerd: 29 augustus 2010
Berichten: 174
Now I have looked at the italian study you posted (2009).
Yes, they claim some amount of multiplication using horizontal bisection ex-vivo. But studies can be faked. Even the peer-reviewed ones.
So lets see if the italian team can do a full restauration as proof of concept.
Otherwise, its all paperware.

>>
Scalp hair works the other way if you have pigmented spot those spots are empty.
<<

??

>>
In Coles study he looked at the etraction sites and how many of them actually Vanished.
<<

vanished and regrew a new graft? or just vanished?
Spanish Dude is offline   Met citaat reageren
Oud 7 juni 2011, 04:35   #51
Stevie.Dee
HaarWeb lid
 
Stevie.Dee's schermafbeelding
 
Geregistreerd: 19 april 2011
Berichten: 190
Citaat:
Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Spanish Dude Bekijk bericht
Now I have looked at the italian study you posted (2009).
Yes, they claim some amount of multiplication using horizontal bisection ex-vivo. But studies can be faked. Even the peer-reviewed ones.
So lets see if the italian team can do a full restauration as proof of concept.
Otherwise, its all paperware.

>>
Scalp hair works the other way if you have pigmented spot those spots are empty.
<<

??

>>
In Coles study he looked at the etraction sites and how many of them actually Vanished.
<<

vanished and regrew a new graft? or just vanished?
ok if you think this study is faked so be it, i cant argue against it because i dont know if its faked or not nor do you
Stevie.Dee is offline   Met citaat reageren
Oud 7 juni 2011, 05:41   #52
HairRobinHood
HaarWeb lid
 
HairRobinHood's schermafbeelding
 
Geregistreerd: 29 mei 2010
Berichten: 199
Citaat:
Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Stevie.Dee Bekijk bericht
Also did you read the link i posted? I think you didnt because it also states that hair regrowth is possible
Did YOU ever read the link you posted YOURSELF??

I think you didn't that yourself, because the study DOESN'T state that "REgrowth is possible". They removed the hairs in the donor area via traditional STRIP removal - which of course results in NO REgrowth in the DONOR area! What a psychIatric loser ...
HairRobinHood is offline   Met citaat reageren
Oud 7 juni 2011, 11:16   #53
Stevie.Dee
HaarWeb lid
 
Stevie.Dee's schermafbeelding
 
Geregistreerd: 19 april 2011
Berichten: 190
Hello Iron.Man

there is no reason to call me a psycho Loser because i ask questions, that Gho patients avoid to answer, also we are all waiting for your personal Gho report which should had to come a few months ago, according to you.

Anyway i dont wanna transfer personal attacks from HS to haarweb, its not good, you shouldnt do it as well because it destroys a normal conversation.

I choose this link for specific reason. First reason, it shows that a hair itself (the dead hair material) can produce a new hair, therefore its obvious that a plucked hair can be transplanted as well. And so we have a proof of concept for hair multiplication to work.

ALso in this study they used the upper and under half which leads to the conclusion that you could splat a hair and get "two" or more out of it.

And now please, dont go into insulting mode again, you could spare at least one hair loss board, or do you want to get banned on the FOURTH board?
Stevie.Dee is offline   Met citaat reageren
Oud 7 juni 2011, 11:30   #54
mr.z
HaarWeb lid
 
Geregistreerd: 24 december 2010
Berichten: 28
ROONEY - http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/...p-comments-nav
mr.z is offline   Met citaat reageren
Oud 7 juni 2011, 23:41   #55
Spanish Dude
HaarWeb lid
 
Spanish Dude's schermafbeelding
 
Geregistreerd: 29 augustus 2010
Berichten: 174
Important:

About the italian study posted by Stevie.Dee:
http://www.tissuereconstruction.it/i...icoli&Itemid=2

From 100 donor hairs, they split them into 100+100 halves and they finally render 70+70 hairs.
So, from 100 donor hairs they get 140 hairs.
This is a 40% increase in haircounts (very nice).

BUT: they also say that the final hairs are "slightly" thinner than the originals: the caliper is 75% of the original.
Well, sorry but this is not slightly thinner. This is *significantly* thinner.
Diameter is 75% of the original, but cross section is 56% of the original (0.75x0.75= 0.56).
So, the final hairs have aprox. *half* cross section compared to the originals!! This means, half mass of hair, and probably half mass of stem cells.

So, you start with 100 full-sized donor hairs and end up with 140 hairs that are only 56% cross-section of the originals. These are equivalent to 78.4 full-sized hairs!!
So, you start with 100 full-size hairs and you end up with only 78.4 full-size hairs.

In other words, this is not hair multiplication, and this study is FLAWED.

Unless I am wrong in my analysis.... please, tell me if I am wrong...

Also, note that they don't post results beyond the 12-month timepoint. This is not enough to verify if the hairs can cycle well.

Laatst gewijzigd door Spanish Dude; 7 juni 2011 om 23:44
Spanish Dude is offline   Met citaat reageren
Oud 7 juni 2011, 23:55   #56
Stevie.Dee
HaarWeb lid
 
Stevie.Dee's schermafbeelding
 
Geregistreerd: 19 april 2011
Berichten: 190
Thats your opinion, read this study and interpret it like you will. One fact remains Donor regrowth is not impossible
Stevie.Dee is offline   Met citaat reageren
Oud 8 juni 2011, 00:20   #57
Lucky
HaarWeb lid
 
Geregistreerd: 17 september 2004
Berichten: 1.198
Citaat:
Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Spanish Dude Bekijk bericht
Important:

About the italian study posted by Stevie.Dee:
http://www.tissuereconstruction.it/i...icoli&Itemid=2

From 100 donor hairs, they split them into 100+100 halves and they finally render 70+70 hairs.
So, from 100 donor hairs they get 140 hairs.
This is a 40% increase in haircounts (very nice).

BUT: they also say that the final hairs are "slightly" thinner than the originals: the caliper is 75% of the original.
Well, sorry but this is not slightly thinner. This is *significantly* thinner.
Diameter is 75% of the original, but cross section is 56% of the original (0.75x0.75= 0.56).
So, the final hairs have aprox. *half* cross section compared to the originals!! This means, half mass of hair, and probably half mass of stem cells.

So, you start with 100 full-sized donor hairs and end up with 140 hairs that are only 56% cross-section of the originals. These are equivalent to 78.4 full-sized hairs!!
So, you start with 100 full-size hairs and you end up with only 78.4 full-size hairs.

In other words, this is not hair multiplication, and this study is FLAWED.

Unless I am wrong in my analysis.... please, tell me if I am wrong...

Also, note that they don't post results beyond the 12-month timepoint. This is not enough to verify if the hairs can cycle well.
Yeah this is what several people have said already for years. Its nice to have hair multiplication but useless when the hairs are significant thinner.
Lucky is offline   Met citaat reageren
Oud 8 juni 2011, 00:54   #58
Spanish Dude
HaarWeb lid
 
Spanish Dude's schermafbeelding
 
Geregistreerd: 29 augustus 2010
Berichten: 174
Citaat:
Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Stevie.Dee Bekijk bericht
Thats your opinion, read this study and interpret it like you will. One fact remains Donor regrowth is not impossible
I expected more depth.

Citaat:
Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Lucky Bekijk bericht
Yeah this is what several people have said already for years. Its nice to have hair multiplication but useless when the hairs are significant thinner.
Yes, but the italian study was interesting because suppossedly had achieved hairs that were not significantly thinner!! but it is false!! the hairs have only 56% full weight!!


another thing: when I open the pdf, I only see until page 1122, and then a blank page. Am I missing something?

Laatst gewijzigd door Spanish Dude; 8 juni 2011 om 01:43
Spanish Dude is offline   Met citaat reageren
Oud 8 juni 2011, 01:03   #59
Stevie.Dee
HaarWeb lid
 
Stevie.Dee's schermafbeelding
 
Geregistreerd: 19 april 2011
Berichten: 190
My opinion is : If you can create hair multiplication, you could aso increase the rate and the size of the hairs.

And no i cant give you more depth because i only know one thing for sure, we all know nothing at all.
Stevie.Dee is offline   Met citaat reageren
Oud 8 juni 2011, 01:46   #60
Spanish Dude
HaarWeb lid
 
Spanish Dude's schermafbeelding
 
Geregistreerd: 29 augustus 2010
Berichten: 174
Citaat:
Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Stevie.Dee Bekijk bericht
My opinion is : If you can create hair multiplication, you could aso increase the rate and the size of the hairs.

And no i cant give you more depth because i only know one thing for sure, we all know nothing at all.
I want you to tell me if my analysis of the italian study is wrong.
If my analysis is right, this would mean that we have yet another failed bisection study. The only successful bisection study that I know is Gho's HST, but I don't trust dr. Gho.
Spanish Dude is offline   Met citaat reageren
Reageren

Discussietools
Weergave Geef een waardering voor deze discussie
Geef een waardering voor deze discussie:

Regels voor berichten
Je mag geen nieuwe discussies starten
Je mag niet reageren op berichten
Je mag geen bijlagen versturen
Je mag niet je berichten bewerken

BB code is Aan
Smileys zijn Aan
[IMG]-code is Aan
HTML-code is Uit

Forumnavigatie


Alle tijden zijn GMT +2. Het is nu 17:01.


Forumsoftware: vBulletin®, versie 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Produced by Limelight Studios. Copyright © 2001-2014 Stichting HaarWeb.